Taking A Deep Dive Into Underground Detention with Steven Messina – Ep. 36

About the Guest

Hello and welcome to Episode #34 of the Placemaking Podcast!
I am excited to share this next conversation with all of you. Steve Messina graduated from THE Ohio State University back in 2007, majoring in structural engineering. After college Steve moved to Indiana to work for one of the top steel manufacturers in the United States (Steel Dynamics, Inc. – SDI) as a construction manager and engineer responsible for overseeing construction of new and existing facilities. After working for SDI for over 9 years, and holding several positions, Steve made a transition to Advanced Drainage Systems and relocated to Fort Worth, TX in 2016.

Today Steve is the Engineered Product Manager for North, East & West Texas. In his role he focuses on three ADS engineered product lines; High Performance Polypropylene Pipe for storm and sanitary applications, StormTech Chambers for underground retention/detention applications, and water quality solutions ranging from hydrodynamic separators to filtration units for storm water quality. Steve is responsible for driving approvals and acceptance with local municipalities, agencies, and engineers.
Advanced Drainage Systems (ADS) is focused on drainage products and services that deliver solutions for the most persistent and challenging water management problems. From safely pre-treating and managing stormwater runoff, to helping developers and property owners harvest rainwater, we focus on the development of water solutions that make land more arable, cities more livable, and the world a greener place to live.

ADS is a leading manufacturer of high performance thermoplastic corrugated pipe and ancillary products, providing a comprehensive suite of water management products and superior drainage solutions for use in the construction and infrastructure marketplace. Our innovative pipes, fittings, basins and other products are used across a broad range of end markets and applications, including non-residential, residential, agriculture and infrastructure applications. We have established a leading position in many of our domestic and international end markets by leveraging our national sales and distribution platform, our overall product breadth and scale, and our manufacturing excellence. Founded in 1966, ADS operates a global network of approximately 60 manufacturing plants and over 30 distribution centers.

In this episode, we are going to discuss the need to provide stormwater detention on your next development project, the various ways that stormwater detention can be handled, as well as the pros and cons of utilizing sub-surface stormwater detention. There is loads of great information in this episode and I greatly appreciated Steve for taking the time out of his busy schedule to discuss this topic of stormwater detention.

Main Take-Away’s From This Show

I always enjoy it when I can talk shop with a fellow engineer. The topic of sub-surface stormwater detention is one that fascinates me on a professional level. The use of such technologies may not make sense for every developer, but given the right circumstances, they can be extremely valuable. There were several great talking points that Steve shared throughout the discussion, so it is hard to just pick three for my main take-away’s this week. The following main topics of the show come from a deep understanding in the design and utilization of underground stormwater detention in your future real estate development endeavors.

1. All ground-up developments that you tackle will need to address stormwater runoff in some way. Oftentimes detention will be required.
2. There are many ways that you can detain stormwater on-site if it is necessary.
3. Underground detention can be utilized as a stormwater quality and quantity control device.

As always, I will dig into each of these “take-away’s” every week on the blog. So, without further a due, here we go!

All ground-up developments that you tackle will need to address stormwater runoff in some way. Oftentimes detention will be required.

Real estate development comes in all shapes and sizes. There is green-field development that occurs when you develop a plot of land with little-to-no impervious areas on site. Meaning there is no pavement or buildings existing on your site. There is also infill development that occurs when you are either demolishing existing buildings to build new structures or additions. Either way, you will need to address the stormwater that lands on your site (or from offsite sources).

Depending on the jurisdiction that you are in, this can be handled a number of ways. However, most jurisdictions at a minimum require that your post-developed runoff does not exceed your pre-developed or existing conditions. Essentially, the more pavement/buildings you add to the site, the less rainwater that can actually percolate into the soils. This also increases the rate at which the water leaves the site. All of these factors make for increased risks of flooding downstream.

Hence the need for jurisdictions to limit the flow rate leaving the site in most cases. In order to do so, there are a number of ways to capture the stormwater on-site and release it over time. This is a nice segway into our next point below.

There are many ways that you can detain stormwater on-site if it is necessary.

Stormwater detention structures come in all sorts of varieties based on the requirements of the site. If you have plenty of open space or have bought land in anticipation of the detention requirement, the surface detention option is often the go-to solution. Surface detention is commonly has a dry, grassed bottom and essentially stores the water above ground while releasing it at a designed flow rate less than that of the predeveloped condition. These could also be designed as “wet ponds” that hold the water up to a certain level. These ponds are often used for aesthetic purposes as well.

When land is at more of a premium or you are in more of an urban setting where there is little space for a large surface pond, subsurface detention is often utilized. This can come in many forms as alluded to in the subheading. They can include oversized pipes, arches, chambers, etc. Each one can be a good plug and play, based on the situation.

The oversized pipes are often used in locations where there is a minimal runoff to collect and can be a cost-effective alternative to some of the more complex systems. Larger chambers or vaults are sometimes utilized under areas with heavy loading requirements such as industrial uses. The arches can be utilized in most of these scenarios and can often provide another benefit as you’ll see in the following takeaway.

However, I would recommend that you as the developer should do some high-level research on all of these various structures so that you are informed when these discussions take place with the jurisdiction and your civil engineer. It helps to be at least acquainted with the ideas mentioned herein so that you can find out what is best for the long-term viability of your project.

Underground detention can be utilized as a stormwater quality and quantity control device.

This last takeaway is one of my favorites, and one that can help to reduce headaches if your projects are located in areas of increased regulatory requirements for stormwater quality, specific underground detention systems may be the ticket for you. Of course, you could also handle water quality requirements with surface detention such as extended-release detention basins or retention ponds, but these often take up a good amount of usable surface area while requiring constant maintenance and attention.

You might ask how this can be done with underground chambers. It really isn’t a difficult concept to grasp, but can’t be utilized with all types of underground detention systems. The arch pipe systems can be used for this application as they have an open bottom that allows for the stormwater to permeate through the surrounding backfill that is utilized during installation. The stormwater gets routed through the underground vaults and once the pore space below the chambers fills up, the water continues on to the outfall of the pond.

As Steve mentioned, it’s similar to filling up a fish tank with aquarium gravel and turning on a hose over the top of the gravel. The space in between the gravel fills up with water before rising up over the rocks. This is a similar action that takes place in the open-bottomed vaulted chambers described. In areas where soils are more permeable, this type of system can actually help to recharge the aquifers in the surrounding areas. This can be a powerful 1-2 punch for addressing the water quality and water quantity concerns of the local authorities having jurisdiction.

As you can see from the takeaways above, this podcast episode was full of amazing information on the topic of stormwater detention and absolutely provides actionable steps you can take on your next real estate development project. As always, if you have enjoyed the content and the show, please subscribe to the show below and share with your friends! We’ll have many more great discussions on the shows to come.

To Learn More About Steven Messina and Advanced Drainage Systems, Inc., Check out the Following Websites:

For more on Stormwater and Flooding on your next Real Estate Development Deal, check out Episode 12 with Kelli DeFedericis to give you a perspective on risks associated with flooding and stormwater in your area.

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